Ken Pratt's interview with Sarge Kahanamoku was recorded in 1984, for the Outrigger Canoe Club's Historical Committee. This version has been slightly shortened and edited. Sarge, the youngest of the Kahanamoku children, was 74 when this interview took place.

Sarge, your Dad was a member of the Honolulu Police Force. Can you tell us something about him?

Yes, Ken. I can remember my father—not too well because he died when I was seven years old. I remember that he was such a big man, a handsome-looking man. The old folks used to tell me that when he had on his police uniform, the women used to go for him and my Mother would get jealous. He used to take us swimming. We used to go down by the old Pier Point. The Pier Point was a bridge that extended out from where the Hawaiian Village is today. It went out about 100 yards and at the very end you’d go down a stairway into the water. All of my brothers and sisters used to hit the water and Sam used to swim way out. Since I was the baby, I used to sit on my father's shoulders and then he’d duck and I’d be in the water, splashing and screaming and crying and I’d swallow half the Pacific Ocean. Then he’d get so mad he’d pick me up and throw me towards the pier. I kept on thrashing, splashing and drinking water until I finally got to the pier. That’s how I learned to swim—on my own. But from that day to now, I thank him for it.

So there was a 20-year spread between you and Duke.

Do you know how you got the name, Sargent?

Yes, Ken, that’s interesting. When I came along, my father was in the Police Department. I was born on the day he was promoted to Sergeant. So the family said, “Let’s call the baby Sargent.” So that’s how I got the name. It was originally "Sergeant"—but I took one "e" out and moved the "a" to the front and it became "Sargent."

Let’s get into Duke’s swimming prowess. I also read somewhere that around 1909 or 1910, the Duke used to swim quite a bit in Waikiki, and one day he saw some swimmers from Australia and he saw a different swim stroke than most Americans were using. It was called, later on, the Australian crawl. He sort of followed this stroke and improved his swimming tremendously. Can you tell us a little about that?

When my brother was in Australia, he saw the way the boys were swimming there and he said, “Gee, that’s all right"—so he started to swim that way and said, “I’m going to call it the Australian crawl.” Of course, he changed it a little because he’d raise his body way up out of the water. He looked like a powerboat cutting through the water with its prow up.

I think the other way he improved it was because he had such big hands and big feet.

Did he also have a coach about that time?

This haole man, Sill Rawlins, a wonderful man, took brother under his wing and said, “OK Duke, you get it, you got it—let’s see if you can really swim.” I think that was the beginning of Duke’s career as a world champion—he set a record for 100 yards in 1911 at Pier 2 down at Honolulu harbor.

He was setting local records first, then when he went to the Olympics for the first time in 1912, that’s when he established new world records. Rawlins was with him for quite some time. Then Dad Center came along.

Actually in 1911 and 1912, Dad Center was still swimming against Duke?

That’s right. They were about the same age. And Rawlins was still coaching Duke at that time. Then in 1912, Duke went to the Olympic Games, did well and came home to a big welcome, with leis and everything. Rawlins went to work for the Territory then and he gave Duke a home—it was at 1847 Ala Moana Road, down by Hawaiian Village near Kalia Road.

Yes, he gave the land and the home to brother Duke.

Did he eventually sell to the Hawaiian Village or whoever purchased there?

No, no, Ken. According to brother Duke’s will, nobody can sell it. It goes to heirs, but because he married he left it to his wife, Nadine. The place is leased by this used car rental business. But it was never sold.

And if Nadine passes away, it might come to the rest of the family. There are only three of us left, besides me. There’s my sister Bernice who is 86, brother Bill is 84, my brother Louis is 76, and I am 74.

Kona side. I haven’t seen Louis for a long time. Louis was at Punahou about the same time I was. He was a little younger I think, but he was quite a football player for a while.

Yes, he was. He played for Punahou and the Town Team—he was quite a football player.

Now would be a good time to talk about the old surfboard water polo. I know you used to play.

That’s right. Surfboard polo. That was quite a sport. It happened this way. One day, this governess and a little girl were on the beach by the Moana Hotel. This was 1926 or early 1927. Somehow a plastic ball got away from the little girl, and she was going out to retrieve it. Brother Sam happened to be out there with his surfboard. So brother Sam kept it away from the little girl. He dribbled it in the water. Louis saw that and I saw it too, so we got into the water with our boards while the governess and the little girl waited. We told them to wait for us to bring the ball back but before we knew it we had a team of seven on one side and seven on the other side. Somebody threw the ball up in the middle and we went for it. We made up our own rules and we made up our own court. The court was the Pacific Ocean, let’s say. The guy who passed to the last man, he’d go right for the Moana pier, hit any part of the pier and that was a goal. Then at the end towards the Royal Hawaiian, going towards the Outrigger where the stream used to come out, there used to be a jetty there. Anytime you passed the last man and threw the ball against the jetty, that was a goal. So that’s how surfboard polo started.

At first, we were doing it for the tourists. At that time, tourists came to Honolulu by boat. They didn’t come by airplanes then. Today, you come for three days or a week and go home. But in those days, they stayed a long time. Rooms weren’t too expensive, boat fares weren’t too expensive and they’d have seven days out at sea and that’s a long time. So the tourists came to Hawaii by boat and they liked to watch us play. We put on quite a show. People from the town would come out, too, if they had five cents to ride the streetcar. They’d come out to the beach. It was interesting because it was all free and it was something to see.

Was there one place in particular where you played?

We played out in front of the Royal Hawaiian. We had a course 50 yards long by 40 yards wide, and at the two were these big nets and you’d put a goalkeeper in front and he was supposed to block the ball as it came in, naturally. On my team, I had Tommy Kiakona for center forward, I was right forward, brother Sam was left and on the back center was Louis or Fred Steere, and my cousin Fred Parse on the left or right back. The goalkeeper was John D. Kaupiko.

John D. used to get mad because nobody could get past Sam and me with the ball, so all he did was sit by the goal and wait. My hands were good, too. I used to do backhand with my right and backhand with my left, too.

Yes, it was a tough sport, really tough. You had to be in condition and I was in condition. We played and played and played. Outrigger had good teams then. They had the two Crabbe brothers [Buster and Edward; Buster was an Olympic gold medal swimmer] and one day they brought brother Duke in. I think Duke had just gotten back from the mainland and it was the first time he was going to play with us. So Sam looked at me and we winked at each other and we thought, “Let’s get the big boy.” We’d let brother Duke have the ball and he’d try to paddle out to our goal and shoot and make a point, but what Sam or I would do was put our hands around his surfboard underwater so he couldn’t get away. He couldn’t understand why he couldn’t move and he’d get so mad. But I made one big mistake, Ken—when I had my hands under his surfboard, I happened to be in the wrong spot, right where he put his big feet and one of them hit me right in the nose.

No, Ken. But people used to bet on the teams, and after it was all over, to show their appreciation, the hotels used to have free lunch for the boys and that was nice. We used to put on a game every Sunday. And that, Ken, was how it all started. I sure would like to see that sport come back again.

Now you said Duke had just come back from the mainland. He’d been up Hollywood doing pictures?

Yeah. Duke was on the mainland. In 1912, the Olympics came along and on his way home, Duke stopped in L.A. and he stayed there trying to make a living for 15 years—he didn’t come home for 15 years. He came home when they opened up the Natatorium in 1927.

Sure. I think I could have been a great swimmer, maybe in the same class as my brother. When I swam in the Natatorium, I did it in 58 or 59 seconds. Now, the record was 57 seconds, set by Johnny Weismuller. But Buddy Crabbe [Edward's son] and I just played around. We didn’t care about setting records—we gave up too soon. We could have been good, but we played around too much.

Brother Duke was the real champion. I remember when he swam at the Natatorium, the old-timers told me, “Watch your brother Duke. When he swims, he makes waves.” I thought, what the hell do they mean "makes waves?" “Watch him, watch him,” they said. I'd never seen brother Duke swim in a meet before. So that night, he jumps in the water and these guys keep saying, “Watch him.” So I watch. He starts down the middle of that tank, goes about 20 yards, and the waves start coming off him. “See what we mean?” the guys said. I am still looking—and those waves were so big that I could take a surfboard and ride them. Nobody else, not even Johnny Weismuller, could get in the middle of a pool and make waves like that. Geez, that man was powerful.

Tell me something about his build, Sarge.

He was six foot. I was six-two, tallest of the family.

Big arms and big hands. He had the biggest hands, the biggest feet.

Here is why brother Duke was the greatest of all swimmers, Ken. He had the heart. He had the warmth. He loved people and he never tried to boast about himself. He was a modest man, he was one of the finest men I ever met in my life. We used to say, “Mehape a ale wala’au” and that means, “Don’t talk—keep it in your heart.” And that’s what Duke did.

Sarge, do you remember the old "Ripley's Believe it or Not” cartoon deal? Every week they would have these drawings of amazing events. Do you recall the one about Duke?

That had to do with the longest surfboard ride by any human being. When the waves were big, we used to call them the "steamer lane" breakers. The steamers ships had to come in beyond those breakers, and every now and then waves used to break three or four miles outside the reef in front of where the new Outrigger Club is today, down towards the Moana Hotel. Duke used to go way out there to surf. So one day he went out there and caught this big wave and he was just like a little ink spot coming in. He slid left all the way—all the way from Diamond Head to where the Outrigger Club now stands, and he cut left and he kept on cutting left and he went all the way to the beach in front of the Moana Hotel. That was the longest surfboard ride ever.

So after that, I wanted to do it too. Well, one morning the waves were breaking way out and they were really big. It was about seven in the morning and I said to myself, “Darn it, I’m going to slide one of those waves as long and as big as my brother Duke. I hope I can do it.” Standing alongside me was Fred Steere, as I recall. So Fred and I don’t say a word. We just go and get our bathing suits on. He put a white bandana around his head and I did likewise. He got on his surfboard, I got on my surfboard, and we paddled out. Now there is a little channel between the Moana and the Royal Hawaiian. We had to take the channel to get out. We were hoping to go straight out but the waves were so big that we had to zig and zag. Fred and I don’t say a word to each other. We just paddle. We gain ten yards, we lose ten yards. But we were in condition in those days, and we both had the same thing in mind—get out in that blue water and catch that wave. Well, the waves just kept breaking, breaking, breaking. Finally, we see this huge wave coming. It seemed like it broke a thousand miles out. So far out, it’s hard to judge distance. But this wave came in and I figured by the time it got to me, it would have no power. I made a mistake. That wave had a lot of power still. I thought, the heck with the surfboard, forget it. The foam must have been 15 feet high or more. I knew I had to dive down out of that turmoil. I had to go way down. Then I looked up and I could see light—the sky and the sun—so I decided it was time to go up. I was out of breath and I swallowed a lot of water on my way up. No sooner did I get up than another wave came and I was down again. And when I came up, no wave. Fred looked at me and he didn’t say a word. We had to swim home—no boards. We got out of the water where the Natatorium is, and walked all the way down in front of the Moana. We finally found our boards down by Fort DeRussy. We called those big waves "Hawaiian Snow" because the whole ocean was covered with foam, from Diamond Head to Barber’s Paint.

We were lucky, I guess. At least we got back in one piece. I never did get to ride a wave like my brother Duke. I always wanted to but I never made it.

Getting back to the Duke—can you recall the various boards he had over the years?

Yes. I think Duke had around three surfboards, but he finally ended up with the longest. It was about 18 feet long. It was made out of redwood and hollow in the middle to give it buoyancy. With a balsa bottom. That board at the midships was about six or seven inches thick.

He had a special place where he stored it—as you entered the old Club through the Hau Terrace, he’d put it on the rack there, a special rack for him. Now, my brother Duke was very particular. You couldn’t touch anything of his—you couldn’t drive his car or use his things. But I wanted to ride his board, so I said to myself, “OK, here goes. If he catches me he’ll lick me, but he’ll have to catch me in the water." So I picked up the board. Chick Daniels saw me and I said, “Chick, don’t you tell.” I finally got that thing out in the water and headed out towards the big surf. When I got out there, I said to the gang, “Look out, you guys, because when I come in I won’t be able to stop this big board.” I called it the USS Oriskany because it was like a big carrier. The first time I caught a wave, I had to stand way back so that bow wouldn’t go down. I stood way back to bring the nose up so I wouldn’t pearl dive. I took two waves and I got into the beach in front of the Royal Hawaiian. I was so happy. I took the board back and put it away, and felt good because I actually rode that big surfboard. But later, when Duke came for lunch and a swim as he always did, he looked at me once and said, “Kid, don’t ever do that again.” And I never touched his board again. That board is out at Bishop Museum today.

Well, I’ll make a point of going out there to look at it. You know, there’s another thing interesting that I remember about Duke. Do you remember his remedy for the common cold? Back in the old Club he used to get out on the sundeck where it was hot with a big pitcher of water and a glass, and he’d drink glass after glass, with that hot sun coming down, and he’d sweat it out.

I don’t recall that, but it seems like a pretty good idea. You know, another thing about Duke that was interesting. He was like all the great athletes, like Jack Dempsey, Jim Thorpe and Joe Louis. They all liked to sleep, sleep, sleep. Until it was time for their events, they’d just sleep. Before he’d go box, Joe Louis would sleep. Jack Dempsey the same. Brother Duke would sleep until it was time to swim or surf. One time, at the Olympics, they couldn’t find him. They kept asking, “Where is the Duke from the Sandwich Islands?” They looked all over in the hotel room, everywhere. Finally someone found him asleep under the bleachers. They woke him up. He just shook his head, got up to the starting line, got wet, boom, won the race. How he loved to sleep.

Let’s see, Sarge, if we can put this together going year to year. Now, 1912 was the first Olympics for Duke, right? And he won the gold medal for the 50 and the 100.

He was a sprinter. Yes, he competed in 1912 and every four years, except when World War I came along.

Right. But he went back in ’20, ’24 and ’32. In L.A. in 1932 he was too old to compete in swimming so he played water polo. That was the end of his swimming career.

Yes, he did. You must remember that was a hell of a long time from 1912 to 1932. There’s been no other athlete that has lasted that long. If he had turned professional in 1912 like some of the rest of them, he’d have been a millionaire. He would have earned millions—with Duke Kahanamoku bathing suits, and this and that. But he didn’t. He stayed an amateur for that long, long span of time. Johnny Weismuller beat him in 1924 and in ’28, then he turned professional. He was through with competitive swimming.

Many of brother Duke’s cups and medals are over in Waimea, Hawaii. Richard Smart set up a museum there to hold his trophies, and it even has the bed he was born in. There are lots of pictures, showing him as a Shriner, and showing with Ripley. It’s quite a collection.

Speaking of the Shriners. I was at a meeting recently, and Nadine [Duke's widow] brought some of his medals. It was a nice meeting. Duke was very active in the Lodge. He went all the way up to the 32nd Degree, the Scottish Rite. Say, Sarge – in the mid-'50s, Ralph Edwards did a show with Duke Kahanamoku as the main person. Could you tell us a little about that?

 My brother Louis, my two sisters, David, Sam, me and Nadine and Dad Center—we were all invited out there for the show. When we arrived, there was an audience already in the theatre and in the audience was John Ford, the great director, the actor Tom O’Brien, and a few others. Now, we were backstage, but there were monitors there so we could see what was going on. Duke was out there on the stage sort of looking around and he couldn’t see too well because the lights were on him, and there was another curtain between him and the audience. Then Ralph Edwards walks over and says, “What are you doing here, Duke?” And Duke says, “I don’t know. I was told to be here.” We’re sitting backstage and we start laughing because there was our brother looking around like he wanted to get off the stage. Ralph cut it short and said, “Well, Duke Kahanamoku, This Is Your Life.” Brother Duke kind of giggled a little and grinned. Now brother knows what it’s all about. So Ralph, he talks about Duke and what he has done during his life. Then he says, “You know, Duke, I think we have someone here you know. Your wife, Nadine.” So she goes out and he is surprised. “And next, your sister, Bernice.” She’s the eldest. So Bernice went out and kissed him, and hugged him. “And your sister, Kapiolani.” And she went out. Then brother David. Then Sam, Louis, brother Bill and then me, the crazy kid brother. Now I’m so busy watching the monitor and everybody else go out that I forgot myself. So Ralph kept saying, “and Sargent, too,” And I’m still there watching the monitor. It didn’t dawn on me that he was calling me—it was really funny. Now, on the stage they had a catamaran. And I finally headed out to the stage but I didn’t go out the way the rest of the family went. I went all the way around the other end. So brother Duke said from the corner of his mouth, “What’s the matter, kid, this is not your show.” Then Ralph Edwards said, “Duke Kahanamoku did something great.” And he told the audience about how a fishing boat had capsized and the Duke had saved all the fishermen. Then he said, “I don’t think you’ve formally met these gentlemen, but here are two of the men you saved that day.” And these two men came out—Duke was so surprised. After all these years. And one of the men said, “Well, Duke, we didn’t know how to find you.” And that kind of hit us, because that’s the way Duke was—he didn’t wait around to be thanked that day when he made all the rescues, so they couldn’t find him. They wanted to thank him in person. “Thank you very much. It’s been a long time, but thank you.”

It was beautiful. The family, we all kissed and hugged Duke but nobody cried. John Ford, the great director, said it was too bad we didn’t get a tape of the show. Maybe they do have one somewhere. I think Duke got a copy, maybe Nadine has that reel. Oh, and Johnny Weismuller was on the program and said to Ralph Edwards, “This is the greatest man I’ve ever met and why? Because when we were going to compete with one another in the Olympics, Duke said to me, 'Son, it doesn’t matter who wins. Let’s just keep that [American] flag flying up there.' You could hear a pin drop, it was so quiet. Johnny stopped there. Johnny was like a brother to Duke. Too bad he’s gone now. But they did keep the flag flying. Nobody beat them.

Well, we here at the Outrigger Club owe you a vote of thanks, Sarge, for telling us about your brother, because there’s not an awful lot written about him. The Duke himself was an extremely quiet man. You couldn’t get much out of him.

That’s true. And I’d like to thank you, Ken, for asking me to come. I know it’s getting late and I’m getting hungry—so I’ll close by just saying ALOHA.

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