"Interview with Ricky Grigg," unattributed by almost certainly done by John Severson, ran in the July 1965 issue of SURFER. After six years of living in Hawaii, Grigg had just returned to California to attend graduate school at Scripps, UCSD; in 1970 he received a PhD in oceanography. The text below has been slightly edited.

You are known as a big-wave rider. Where and when did you start riding big surf?

I started surfing when I was about 12 years old. I rode my first big waves when I was 14, at the Ventura Overhead. It was 12 feet. Then, of course, during the famous January 10 surf of 1953, it was between 15 and 20 feet, up and down the coast. On this particular day I saw my first really big surf. I feel that Rincon had sets of 20 feet that day. It was a consistent 15 feet, but I remember several waves that I’m sure were over 20 feet. They compared with anything I have seen since in Hawaii. Of course, I was young and naive in those days and perhaps the waves looked a little bigger in my wide eyes. Even so, I still feel that the waves were of those proportions.

Yes, I enjoy riding small waves. It’s good exercise and it helps to get me away from the pressures and problems in my schooling and life. I must admit, though, that small surf doesn't present any challenge to me because my ability has been channeled into the philosophy of riding big waves—judgment, trimming ability, swimming, breath-holding, and so on. Riding small surf is more of an acrobatic maneuver, except for surfers such as Phil Edwards and Paul Strauch, who have a fabulous innate balance and grace that make it far more than a feat of acrobatics.

Then you feel that there is a difference between big wave riding and small wave riding?

Yes. It’s like comparing ski jumping to slalom. There’s no comparison outside of being on a surfboard in the water. There is a different philosophy, different ability, and different temperament that separates the two sports. In the past it has taken a completely different type of surfer to ride big waves as opposed to small waves. But these days some very good small wave surfers are beginning to tackle the big waves. People like Paul Gebauer, Rusty Miller, Joey Cabell, and Butch Van Artsdalen have shown that hotdoggers can do well in big waves. I was a performer in small surf when I was a kid and. Then I changed my style to adapt to big waves and forgot about the smaller surf.

Have you ever entered surfing or paddling contests?

I used to paddle a lot, but when I was at my peak in surfing, there were no contests except in Hawaii. I entered the Makaha Contest one year—the year Peter Cole won and I placed fourth. Before that, Tommy Zahn got me going on paddling contests and we were stoked on the big Catalina to Manhattan Pier  race. I was surfing so much in those days that I was too tight to swim, so I entered the paddling contest.

Why haven't you entered surf contests in the last few years?

I think the contest scene in Hawaii has a lot of bugs in it for one thing. I would like to enter [the Makaha International] on a real big day, but then the judges can’t see the contestants anyway and many times another competitor will get your points. Another thing is that you have to ride waves their way and not your own way to get points. You have to compromise to fit the judges’ way of thinking. It’s not the same as riding to just get the most out of it. You can’t take the extra little chances to get the most out of the wave because if you fall you lose the contest. This is, of course, in real big waves. I wouldn’t have a chance in a contest with small waves because my big-wave style cannot compete with an acrobatic small-wave style. Doing well in a small-wave contest requires constant practice and this is something I have not done because I haven’t had the time.

You are attending school now. Do you allow surfing to interfere with your schooling?

No, I can’t allow that. It’s absolutely impossible. If I did, I wouldn’t last a day at Scripps. It’s very rigorous.

Have you ever allowed surfing to interfere with your schooling?

Oh sure, when I attended Stanford I tried to keep ahead of my classes so I could go surfing at Santa Cruz with Peter Cole. Actually, it helped me because I was always ahead and when the surf did come up, I could get away. If I had an exam or an important class, of course, I would not let surfing interfere. I couldn’t. There was always another day of waves.

Do you feel that school is important enough to devote yourself to it?

It depends on what you want to do with your life. I’m very interested in the ocean and what gives me the greatest thrill is learning as much about it as I possibly can. To do this I have to devote all of my time now. I have to make the ultimate sacrifice for my schooling. I study 10 to 12 hours a day and give up things that I would rather do like surfing or going to bullfights, or watching TV. I just can’t do those things. When I get my PhD and become qualified to do research, then I will once again have leisure time to spend with my family or surfing or whatever I wish to do. I think this is the case for anybody. A guy who wants to be an artist or go into business can’t compete with the world unless he’s some sort of genius. If he’s not, he has to put in the same amount of time as I'm putting in now. He has to work as hard or the other guy will beat him, and if he’s beat he’s not going to be anything but a surfer—and I think there’s more to life than riding waves. Surfing is fun, it’s thrilling, it’s exciting, but I think it becomes stale after a while and you get to be a has-been. You keep trying to prove that you’re as good as you used to be—that you’re better than the up-and-coming guys. This makes for a cynical, frustrated man. I think energies should be channeled into other expressions of life. There is no sense in doing just one thing when you can lead a full life. Versatility gets you more of what life has to offer.

Teaching or, ideally, research on biological oceanography, which is the study of animals that live in the sea and how they are affected by the environment of the ocean. Actually, it’s figuring out the riddles of the ocean.

You have a family and are working on your schooling, yet you still find time for surfing. How do you do it?

I do everything in short bursts. Like this last winter I went to Hawaii for 14 days between semesters. I lucked out and hit ten days of big surf. Of course, you can’t always be lucky like that. In the past I have sacrificed one thing for another.

The inside Banzai Pipeline mess is not one of my favorite surfing spots. I think it’s ridiculous. But the outside lineup, which is another few-hundred yards out, I think is the prettiest wave I have ever seen. Next I would choose Maili Point. Then big Makaha, big Laniakea, and Sunset Beach. For small waves, Honolua Bay on Maui. Honolua really has perfect conditions. It’s a winter swell place that faces the same direction as Makaha.

Is there a difference in how you ride each spot?

I think Sunset has the most to offer. It gives a surfer more opportunity to use all of his abilities. The peak shifts around on these finger reefs that go way out to sea and you’ve got to have fabulous judgment; you have to watch it like a hawk. You have to scrutinize and analyze every little ripple so that you can be in the right spot. Then there’s the challenge of going left into the peak and dropping into a bottom turn, or taking off on the far side of the peak and dropping through it, then there’s 50 yards to turn back and play with the wave, and then the inside turns into a beautiful wall. It’s really quite versatile. Waimea by comparison is a giant elevator drop. It’s very easy to line up and the waves break practically in the same spot every time. Waimea doesn’t take much judgment, it’s more just deciding you’re going to ride the wave and doing it without hesitation. You keep your weight forward and if you get to the bottom of the wave, you’ve made it. Unless, of course, it breaks on you. At Laniakea you take off at an angle and from there on it’s how well you can trim the board. Makaha is pretty much the same as Laniakea. The idea is to get your board high and standing on its edge like an iceskate. The edge is locked in so that it is not sliding down the wave and it’s not giving way, and that way you're getting the maximum speed out of it. The whole point is maximum efficiency.

Yes, at Banzai. I got wiped out on a big wave. The wipeout was nothing—just a powder puff. This was way, way outside. I leisurely began swimming in on my back when a giant set came and broke outside. It came at me, but I wasn’t too bothered and figured I would railroad the soup in. I should mention here that a funny thing happens at the Pipeline. When you're way outside, the wall of soup rolls along in deep water and when it hits you it’s relatively soft. As long as the water is deep, it’s constantly backing off. But the water will then suck out on that inside reef and become very shallow, and suddenly everything below you becomes a churning mass and there’s no way to get under it. The churn is all the way to the bottom. Anyway, about eight waves in a row hit me during this set. I came up between each wave, but it was such a struggle to get up each time that my energy was sapped. Pretty soon I felt just like rubber—completely exhausted. I could barely move my arms in the water. I felt like giving up and was getting dizzy and seeing stars. It was just lucky that by this time I was so close to shore that I washed in. Generally in big surf you don’t get into those problems because you’re out in deep water. In this particular case I was rushing and took a shortcut across a shallow reef to get in. I took too much for granted and this should never be done in the ocean.

What do you think it takes to become a big-wave rider?

It’s so different from anything you’ve ever seen or done before. It’s such a shock to your system to see such mountainous waves of water that they don’t look 30 feet, they look 60 or even 90 feet high. It depends on how many big waves you have seen. The more you have seen, the smaller they look. A surfer can overcome this by getting used to it and adjusting to it. This is a bit part of big-wave riding. It’s a gradual conditioning of your mind to accept what you have to face. It’s like the kamikazi pilots during World War II. When they took off from Tokyo, they knew what they were going to encounter, but they could cope with it because they had been trained to accept it.

Who do you think are some of the great big-surf riders of today?

There’s certainly no one better than Paul Gebauer. Peter Cole and Greg Noll have tremendous drive. They are exceptional as far as drive, although they lack the graceful style and often times don’t get the credit they deserve. When Phil Edwards and Paul Strauch go out, they make it look like they are scoffing at the big waves—but they just haven’t that desire to chew up the big surf. It’s rare to see them on a big wave. It’s not that they’re afraid, they would just prefer to ride smaller waves. You cannot consider them great big-wave riders because they don’t spend much time at it. On the other hand, when they do go out, it’s humiliating to watch their smooth control. 

Some of the other great big-wave riders are George Downing, who I think is a master, and Buzzy Trent, who taught me to surf. Buzzy is the master of handling the big surf mentally. George has the ability to adjust to a big wave anywhere in the world. He has more experience in big waves than anyone else. Wally Forseith and Woody Brown reached their peak before I could see them, but they paved the way. They did things that we could copy so we didn’t have to go through the same learning curve that they did. They made it easier for us to learn, just as we have made it easier for the new guys, like Mike Doyle, who is very good in big waves, and Butch Van Artsdalen and Rusty Miller, and add Kimo Hpllenger to the older guys. John Peck is an example of a new guy who has copied us and is improving on what we learned.

Sure. Buzzy has the power style, George is relaxed and cool, and Paul Gebauer makes the most use out of a wave, turning and performing.

How long do you think a surfer can ride big waves?

It depends on what kind of shape he stays in. You’ve really got to be in good shape to ride big waves. Just laying off six months and going back, I find myself in very bad shape. I would say that if you stay in good shape, you can surf big waves until you’re 40 or 45.

Is swimming ability is importent in big surf?

Yes, but it's a special kind of swimming. Trent isn’t a fast swimmer, for example, so by speed standards he isn’t a good swimmer, but he’s strong and he can churn for hours. So it’s not so much how fast you are, it’s your endurance—how long you can swim without getting tired, and more important than that is knowing where to swim in, what currents to take advantage of, and what currents not to get into. It’s not necessary to be an All American swimmer. It’s more important to have a general feeling and knowledge of the sea.

You have been selected as one of the best surfers in the world. What is your position on the Poll? 

[Note: Grigg had recently been named runner-up to Phil Edwards in the 1963 SURFER Poll.]

Perhaps if this poll were taken two or three years ago, my position in the Poll would be justified, at least in big waves. Now, however, there are several riders who are every bit as good, if not better, in the big surf. Take Paul Gebauer for example. He is probably the best big-wave rider going today, yet he didn’t even make the Poll. The reason for this is obvious. Publicity or notoriety lags the actual events that cause it. Artists, for example, aren’t recognized until they are dead. Paul no doubt will be recognized next year or perhaps the following by being selected at the top of such a poll, but by then he may no longer be the best. The point is, he is now.

Young surfers coming up today have gained from our trials and errors just as we gained from the trials and errors of such men as George Downing and Buzzy Trent. Therefore, better surfers, better decathlon men, better writers, better everythings, are inevitable. Recognition, of course, is often slow to follow. Take Kealoha Kaio, who most surfers have never heard of. Well, he is fantastic, Very aggressive, beautiful bottom turns—very good. Paul Strauch is another who seems to shun publicity. In my opinion he is the only surfer in the same class as Phil Edwards. I think the Poll is a pretty good measure, but there is no doubt in my mind that at least Strauch’s name should have appeared above mine.

What do you think of the future of surfing?

I think it’s very bright. Surfing will grow in numbers, but the problems must be overcome. A surfer should think about the next guy rather than acting on impulse and trying to be a big guy by making wise remarks or destroying property. The bad behavior is just to attract attention and this isn’t necessary for a person who can ride a wave well. Other sports have coaches and guidance and surfing has none of this. I think the club and competition teams are headed in the right direction. They will probably eliminate the bad element and give more respect to surfing.

You are 26 years old. How long do you think you will continue surfing?

Oh, I'll always surf when I find time. But these days I’m more interested in studying the ocean and why waves break the way they do now instead of trying to prove that I can ride them better than the next guy. I’ve already gone through that. I’ve satisfied myself that I can at least do what I set out to do. I’ve satisfied my ego in terms of physical output and now I’d rather prove to myself that I can do something with my head—something a little more productive and creative—that might benefit other people.

Do you feel that surfers go into creative fields more so than participants in other sports?

I certainly feel that the surfers of the early '50s and before have gone into creative fields. Back then, to be a surfer was to be an individual. But many kids are getting into surfing today because it is a fad, so it is no longer as full of individuals as it once was. Of course, there will always be people who have an affection for the ocean and who surf with a sincere feeling. They’re not out there because it’s the thing to do; they’re out there because this is what they want to do. If you surf because it’s what you want to do, then you’re an individual. If you surf because you’re conforming, then it does not lead to creativity and being an individual.

Rick Grigg

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